President Obama's Thinking On Sen. Reid's Threat Of Using The Nuclear Option

[Sasquatch]

So the final healthcare bill, the one that will go to Obama's desk for his signature, will have arrived at his desk NOT using a 50 plus 1 option. Correct?

[NCVol]

You're getting into "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" territory.

The fact is reconciliation in this situation is NORMAL and has been done REPEATEDLY BY REPUBLICANS and it's not being used to pass major reforms, but minor fixes, that satisfy the Byrd Rule and that are signed off on by the Parliamentarian as consistent with long standing rules repeatedly employed in the last 30 years. 

There was a significant break in the rules of reconciliation earlier - the rule used to require that the measure REDUCE the deficit (the intended purpose was likely to allow tax increases - the HORROR!!!!), but since the 2001 and 2003 tax CUTS passed by the fiscally responsible republicans exploded the deficit, the lovers of rules and tradition republicans did have to CHANGE the rules to no longer require deficit reduction, but also deficit EXPLOSION to measures that could pass using this "radical" method. 

[Just Win]

One question:

When Obama said he would not use the 50 plus 1 method to pass healthcare reform, and then does, would this be considered a lie by the left-of-centers?

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-american-agenda-flashback-dems-should-not-pass-healthcare-with-a-50-plus-1-strategy

Great question Sas. Don't expect a straightforward and truthful answer. This legislative parliamentary strategy for the national  government taking over 1/5 of the American Economy with a simple majority vote in the senate turns the senate into an unstable Greek City-State  simpleton democracy [ancient Greece City State type democracy for you Democrats]  form of government lead by Robespierre Harry Reid. This is like having two House of Representatives with the senate morphing into a rubber stamp for tyranny.  This is certainly not what Jay, Hamilton, or Madison envisioned the senate being. But then again, according to Democrats Saul Alinsky wrote the Federalist Papers.

 
Simple democracy French Revolution style lead by Robespierre

 
Democrat Party theologian Saul Alinsky

[NCVol]

Yep, the founders wanted a 60 vote majority for the Senate, which is why they wrote the requirements for a super majority right there in the constitution.  

I forget, what section of the Constitution was it that included the filibuster rules?  Help me out JW, aren't you a legal expert?  It's probably where it says minority parties get to dictate the President's appointments with a super majority.  People think it says, advise and consent, but that's not what it says, it says, "President shall ask minority opposition party's approval for ALL hires."  (emphasis in the original - It's a rare case where the founders used BIG CAPS to make a point....)

Seriously, people are so ignorant about what's actually IN the constitution and you have to point out the long history of the minority in the opposition party dictating hiring decisions of the President especially when pork projects in the home state are at risk.  Seriously, if one party loses an election, the rules are clear, they have the authority to make up for that loss with a veto threat over every executive branch appointment!  It's right there in the dang document- show us JW! 

[Just Win]

Yep, the founders wanted a 60 vote majority for the Senate, which is why they wrote the requirements for a super majority right there in the constitution.  

I forget, what section of the Constitution was it that included the filibuster rules?  Help me out JW, aren't you a legal expert?  

If 60 is not that important of a number, why did your heroes (See George Soro$) cheat Al Franken to victory in Minnesota? If you want to discuss senate rules you need to talk to Klansman and Democrat Senator Robert Byrd from WV. He is the one that updated the senate rules on the using the nuclear option back when he was Democrat Majority Leader of the senate.

[NCVol]

If 60 is not that important....

I think you missed my point, I was agreeing with you.  You were right, the founders you cited clearly wanted the Senate to be under a different set of rules, with any bill requiring a super majority, and so wrote the filibuster rules requiring 60 votes right there in the document.  There's a big discussion about it in the Federalist Papers too.  I don't have the cites handy and was hoping you'd help me out so I can shut up the dumb democrats who are constitutional know-nothings. 

Federalist number_____

Constitution Article ___ Section ____

[Just Win]

I think you missed my point, I was agreeing with you.  You were right, the founders you cited clearly wanted the Senate to be under a different set of rules, with any bill requiring a super majority, and so wrote the filibuster rules requiring 60 votes right there in the document.  There's a big discussion about it in the Federalist Papers too.  I don't have the cites handy and was hoping you'd help me out so I can shut up the dumb democrats who are constitutional know-nothings.  

Federalist number_____

Constitution Article ___ Section ____

The first one that comes to mind is Madison's 62. See link below.


http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa62.htm

[NCVol]

Brilliant!  Here's the section!  Thanks!

Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a [super] majority of the States.

Makes sense, you have to get a majority of the people, through the proportional representation of the House, then a SUPER majority of the states by giving each state two Senators regardless of population and then allowing a minority of Senators to kill any legislation. 

(I added the part about the super majority that was missing from the copy of Federalist 62 that you linked to.  Probably published by a liberal democrat...  You can't be too careful. I didn't check but I bet Consevapedia.com has it right!)

[LTC]

NCVol, jbw can't figure out the difference in reconciliation and nuclear option...do you REALLY expect him to understand the difference between a SUPER majority and a plain ole majority?  He is a wingnut, remember?  He lives in just-blowing-wind land in the town of Wingnuttia! He makes up his own definitions and facts! 

[LTC]

[The One Man Gang]

[Flummoxed Lummox]

 

Great. Another drive-by piece of idiocy from our resident malcontent.

Hey 18,

Have you figured out the difference between reconciliation and the nuclear option?